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Citizens' perspectives on the future of Transatlantic
Relations
- Discover here the opinions of speakers and partners
of the Miami Congress -
| Imre
HRONSZKY |
Head
of Dept. of Innovation Studies and History of Technology
Budapest Univ. of Technology Economics (BUTE) |
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1.
What is your current assessment of the 'state' of transatlantic
relations?
Concerning politics it is a strategic alliance but recently
just a bit problematic, with hopes to overcome it. I hint
at the recently cold US-German foreign political relations,
the first. On the other side recent events concerning
e.g. the US-Hungarian foreign political relations show
that a republican US government can strategically meet
in political issues a Hungarian government based on social
democratic-free democratic alliance and develop a, hopefully,
rapidly progressing co-operation, for the benefit of both
partners.
Concerning trade I only mention one element, that repeatedly
returning debates are to expect in relation to such cutting
edge technologies, as the biotech in its application to
agriculture. The reason, at its deepest level, is the
different value approach to the possible "costs and
benefits" of these technologies that can only be
assumed but not surely known previously. This different
value approach is intimately connected to assumptions
about rationality of action, e.g. tradebility of goods
with unknown risks. I guess, a mutual readiness to learn
from the experiences so far is appropriate.
Concerning cultural contact I guess a much stronger effort
should be made on both sides of the Atlantic to acquire
cultural goods, than it is mostly done trough recent mass
tourism. But more than that this requirement is of mutual
learning about cultures of each other to accomodate them
at home. I mean by that examples of hosting visitors by
Canadian families at the last olimpic games in Canada,
1976 that made the games partly a type of family issue
and of folks festivity. Or learning such initiatives from
each other that led to the paraolimpic games. Europeans,
having a good development, especially in France of the
18th century or England in the second half of the 19th
century, with which contributed to women equity of their
time could learn much from women movements in the USA
after the second world war, getting requested by this
"best case" practice to follow them. But also
to learn about extremistic forms of feminism, to avoid
them. For my country, having an important gipsy part of
population, there are important things to learn from the
Canadian and US practice of leaving together of different
people, and, I think especially from Canada, how to support
cultures of minorities. To learn to accept differences
and through this learning about the most basic unity of
mankind seems one of the most urgent tasks to solve.
Concerning turism. I do take turism separately, for recent
mainstream of turism, I guess, is not about deepening
cultural understanding. It is still much more about acquiring
something, what you could buy at the visited place, on
a 'reasonable' price and, mostly, partly leads to reinforcement
of prejudices about each other and does not help in the
emergence of a need of any sort of doing something together.
This turism, with very limited consumer goals, also of
"consuming" cultural goods, instead of acquiring
culture and accomodating it, does not help much in bringing
people together, even when it seems the recent main possibility
to get further to more valuable purposes. /The movie twenty
years ago, "If today is Tuesday the name of the land
is Belgium" was a pretty representation of the problem.
It praises some Americans that they shout it, for Europeans
have not made its counterpart about turists in America./
Recent mass turism is not only not based on interest in,
does scarcely include, say interest in living conditions
of different layers of people, or getting friends. So
the urgent question of why do we still have a threatening
growing measure of powerty and despair in our world, also
reappearing in "most advanced" societies as
ours in the US and Europe?, are avoided by the purpose
of mass turism from the very beginning. Recent mass turism
is typically a reinforcement of the individualistic consumer
behaviour and through it the selfisheness that strategically
threatens the world society in the 21st century. Through
mass turism both citizens of the US and Europeans seem
mostly to try to experience their belonging together as
"haves" and learn their difference from the
rest when they visit these countries.
2. Do you think that the next decade will bring positive
news in the two historical pillars of the
US-EU relations: security and trade?
If the question is about the first ten years of the 21st
century, as I guess, the answer seems in both relations
certainly positive. The recent immediate threatening world
terrorism brings together both continents to solve the
most urgent common task of providing security. The worldwide
security from terrorism seems, in my opinion, the very
first task for the decade. And I think, even when any
war should only be the last immediate tool, annihilating
the mass destroying arsenal of countries ready to use
them is the most urgent immediate task. Many people think
that peace as a most basic value should be kept on every
price. It is important to see, I believe, that anihilating
mass detroying arsenal of countries must preceed anything.
But, of course, it can only be the first step toward a
peaceful co-development and it is also obvious that terrorism
could not have its potential when the North -South problem,
first of all that of powerty would not feed it. And there
is not much sign by the North to seriously incalculate
in politics a reorientation of the world economy. On he
other side democratic countries have a major part to find
a way of handling the problem how to abolish hate speech
and ideologies feeding it, all over the world. In this
case cultural differences between the US and Europe favorise
different approaches.
Concerning
world trade, it is not very risky to forecast a strong
raise of trade between the US and Europe /and Japan/,
based on rather fair exchange rates, under conditions
of globalisation. It is a further question how this
will be connected to trade relations to other parts
of the world. It seems certain that the world trade
relations should lead the less developed and poor countries
to be able to diminish they accelerating running into
debt. Recent globalisation tendencies show into the
opposite direction and they help reviving the search
for /new/ terroristic "solutions". One of
the elements to constrain a changing attitude by the
most developed countries is in the hand of the public
through changing customer relations, rasing public consciousness,
developing and using both immediate person to person
connections as well as movemental tools.
3. You support the
organization of the congress 'Reshaping Transatlantic
Relations for the XXIst century: the citizens' perspective'
to be held in Miami on November 14th-16th. Do you think
that such an event can bring new fresh ideas on the
present debate over the transatlantic relations?
As it was mentioned in answering the previous question
networking by people through person to person relations
as movemental tool seem most important in shaping global
relations. Certainly, the Internet is a main tool of
connecting people all over the world. Through it, they
may immediately personally learn about each other. /I
do not deal here with either the problem of language
differences or the problem of cultural hegemony mediated
by using English, mostly working as tacit mediator of
American culture./ Networking may have a couple of effects,
such as mutual information. Being a robust but simultaneously
flexible connection networking gives some sort of enhanced
security, meanwhile providing for a huge resource of
creativity, innovativity. Both new ideas and new modes
of communication may emerge through such communication
and they may lead to some new power in shaping political
relations.
4.
Is the people-to-people cooperation able
to open new fields of constructive US-EU cooperation
in the coming years? In which way?
In answering this question I consciously reduce my interest
to one topic, I professionally deal with. It is the
need for an ongoing public discourse on coming new technologies.
It is certain, that some sort of new "social contract"
should be developed in issues of coming cutting edge
technologies. The reason is that any coming basic new
technology brings with itself a possibility of ambivalent
social utilisation and we live our life more and more
through technologies. Just to mention one element of
the needed new "social contract", we have
to include in it the development and utilisation of
new technological possibilities for addressing the rich
- poor divide. To leave the driving force role for new
technologies to the market only, would leave the utilisation
of this huge new potential, the new technologies to
let develop into the direction where individuals have
paying capacities, reinforcing this way the unequality
on the market. Some sort of procurement policy by the
rich countries, especially say concerning detectation
and fighting of most widespread genetic deseases is
a global task of the richest countries. Open, ongoing
social discourses by the public over technological potential
are needed to have an impact on changing the recent
basic directions of technology policies of the richest
countries. And the participation in research, say, on
utilisation of genetic engineering for human medical
purposes, especially the cloning story, show that the
topic of assessement and evaluation of strategic lines
of technology policy is very complex. It does not have
any simply calculable optimum and is in need of fine
differentiations. That means that it is in need of ongoing
discourse, leading to learning and co-evolution of the
"parties" taking part in it. This ongoing
discourse may give a strongly needed legitimation to
coming new technologies.
The
US and the EU has a decade old co-operation, say, in
issues of biotech research. It unifies a co-operation
for enhancing competitivity on the market as well as
main elements of social value considerations. I think
developing an accompanying US-EU citizen discourse on
strategic orientation of technological research is a
timely task.
Let
me make a side remark. One has not to forget about experiences
with these sorts of evolving connections. The hidden
expectation behind them is to reach some sort of consensus
over the basic goals and perhaps even tools of cooperation.
But, as experiences show, they first learn differences
about each other. This way people-to-people cooperation
will have its difficulties with its initiating phase.
I do think that the most important is that citizens
of both sides of the Atlantic make connections to each
other to learn about their everyday life, with an empathy
for the different values they have. We both live in
multicultural, democratic societies, with rather high
tolerance for value differences. We have to learn even
more tolerance and abandon any trial to develop a strong
common value system except the very basic./Irradicating
terrorism as tool of solution of problems is one of
the elements of this very basic value system to share,
I believe./
All this has the purpose of learning to understand and
influence global issues. There is some basic task to
solve at this point and a basic prejudice about its
impossibility. It is already partly accepted even by
many "aristocratic" thinkers that people know
quite well their local situations and are able to manage
accomodation to changes in them. It is important further
to learn how to develop an understanding of local differences
that can lead to a better comprehensive understanding
of global issues. The media may have a decisive role
in it, beside those person-to-person relations this
congress tries to think of. In this relation, it seems
to me through my scarce experiences in the US, that
the media in the US still have a lot to do and have
quickly to raise their programmes helping to make understood
people of other worlds. /You know so that the taxidriver
of Pulp fiction can get a different picture of the Europeans
than that they just eat hamburger with different sauce./
Another
side remark: This recent, very valuable initiative will
really be 'Transatlantic' when South America and Africa
will also be included. And if not only "Internet
people" but also the poor get included into a global
discourse, the topics and the perspectives on them may
change quite a lot. So, the foreseen widening of the
discourse in the near future is a very important purpose,
indeed.
5. Being the two richest and most democratic areas on
the planet, do you think that both the EU and the US
societies face a special responsibility regarding globalization
on the one hand; and on the other hand, do you think
that they will face a growing number of similar challenges
in their way towards the next decades?
I do think that these societies, the US and Europe face
a special responsibility regarding globalization. /It
is a different question, not to discuss here, that the
South has also its duties to realise./ First of all,
on the long run, and for really democratic societies,
there is no way out of redistributing tools of producing
wealth. This question gives me the occasion to mention
a partial but I think only seemingly minor point. It
is how to describe and evaluate globalisation and globalisation
of health and environmental issues? It is about the
recently still typical striving for a unique metric,
a typical, standardising modernistic approach that puts
a biased answer already in questioning about issues.
/Just as casual examples: Indoor radiation can not be
a common metricthe same way for describing and evaluating
environmental problems in a developed and underdeveloped
country, DDT had a different role in Florida when fighting
malaria then now, it still has different importance
for many poor countries than for reach countries./ That
means striving for a unique metric misleads both in
time as well as geographic and social dimension.
Well,
it is true the US and Europe both have a big number
of similar challenges. But also a big number of very
important differences as well. Only one remark to the
later. It is about the "ageing Europe", a
tendency that seems to continue for decades, with all
of its consequences.An element of recent trials to solve
the problem is brain drain from the Third World, just
adding a further element to the continuing brain drain
chain, e.g. also from Europe to the US. /NB this remark
is not about the individual rationality of the decisions
of all those who willingly follow the way opened for
them. It is about the global responsibility of accounting
with the whole, with the countries through strenghtening
co-operation from where they come from./
6.
Beyond treaties, organizations, common interests, ...
the cooperation between Europeans and Americans is,
in the end, a matter of people cooperating with people
(politicians, civil servants, businessmen, executives,
professors, activists,). How do you assess this 'human
factor' today? Should it be improved?
The development of the 'human factor' through connecting
each other, to use the reifying language of burocrates,
the possibility of everyday connection among everyday
people is terribly retarded, in comparison to the need
for its correcting force in global issues. To anticipate
changes in complex issues belongs to wisdom. The development
of 'human factor' in this direction certainly is one
of them. Learning through own experiences belongs to
this development, as US students have done also at my
university, the Budapest University of Technology and
Econmics /BUTE/ in the cruel days on the 11th of September
2OO1 and after, being abroad, when they could learn
a deep sympathy for them and the immediate readiness
to help them feeling themselves in security among Hungarians.
So, it is important that politicians, civil cervants,
etc make connections to each other, they make perhaps
friendship, but the most important is that simple persons
learn about each other, first of all about their everyday
life.
If
the question, should the cooperation of 'human factor'
be improved?, means some sort of direct organisational
action, I attribute less importance to this even when
accept that organisationed actions can help a lot as
some direct actions, as marathonies. Most important
is, I think that it should be improved by people themselves.
The needed organisational activities should be background
activities, such as helping best cases to know, or just
providing for networking on the Internet, or occasional
personal meetings at festivities.
Developing
immediate networking of citizens through Internet is
a very-very important step. But it is not to forget:
developing communication and cooperation among people
through Internet is in some way the issue of a still
"fashionable society", of fortunate people.
Of those who can visit each other, at least on Internet.
Not including the recently excluded poor majority into
this cooperation necessarily leads to some benevolent
ideas and action plans from above, a type of "remote"
expertise, now paradoxically to realise by those who
are for public participation. To be able to formulate
the correct questions it is already urgent to involve
the poor into the discussion of global issues by developing
a co-evolutionary learning by simple, everyday people,
it is a further task to realise even when a special
responsibility falls on the "fashionable public"
of rich countries able to connect each other through
Internet.
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